Smells Like Teen Parent
This podcast is for adolescents and the adults who annoy them. You want to have a good relationship with your teen and you also have to get them ready for the real world. Jenny Debevec, a nationally certified counselor and consultant with 20 years working with teens, helps you maintain your sense of humor, offering motivation, advice, and support as we walk this sometimes smelly road. You will hear fun discussions and let’s get real interviews with parents, kids, and experts about topics like college applications, sex and gender identity, social media, relationships, learning disabilities, parent self-care, puberty, and more! If you need a laugh, a little advice or just want to know you’re not alone, listen in.
Smells Like Teen Parent
Ep 14: Supporting LGBTQ+ Youth: Transforming Love Into Action
Have you ever wondered how to navigate the emotional labyrinth of supporting a LGBTQ+ child? Do you wish you had a guide, someone who's been through it, to offer invaluable insights? This episode, packed with candid conversations, student insights, and real-world tips, is your guide. Heather Hester, founder of Chrysalis Mama, takes us through her personal journey as a parent of LGBTQ+ youth, highlighting the essential role acceptance, open communication, and respect play in their lives.
Imagine the paradigm shift required to break from traditional ideas of control and authority to create safe spaces for young people exploring gender and sexuality. In my talk with Heather, we examine how to foster these safe spaces, address the emotional rollercoaster that follows a child's coming out, and underline the significance of therapy and self-care. We also amplify the voices of student contributors who illuminate the necessity of nurturing inclusive environments in schools, homes, and communities.
Shining a light on the importance of active support and advocacy is the crux of our conversation, especially for transgender children. Heather and our student contributors underscore the power of affirmation, like using preferred pronouns and chosen names. The potency of words like "I'm here for you, I love you, and I've got your back, no matter what" cannot be overstated. This is more than just an episode – it's a toolkit for parents, teachers, and allies seeking to foster a more accepting world for our LGBTQ+ youth. Tune in, and together, let's transform love into action.
Welcome to Smells Like Teen Parent, a podcast for adolescents and the adults who annoy them. I'm Jenny DeBevick, a nationally certified counselor with 20 years experience working with youth. In our last episode we explored the value of using humor in parenting, and in this episode we are delving into a two-part series on how we can support our LGBTQ plus youth. How does your school approach LGBTQ students?
Speaker 2:In my school we have like the Gender Sexuality Alliance, the GSA club, so students can join that to get like support from like other students in the LGBTQ community. And then I know we have like safe bathrooms. Students don't feel comfortable like changing in one bathroom, Like the girls or the boys bathroom. They can have like their own separate bathroom to change it?
Speaker 1:How does your school support LGBTQ plus students, if at all?
Speaker 2:Like there are lots of LGBT people at school are being supported, but there's just not like. There's no like clubs for it, there's no awareness for it. Really, it's just kind of like you know people are and no one cares.
Speaker 1:These episodes are a profound exploration of how we can come together to provide the vital support, understanding and acceptance that our LGBTQ plus youth deserve. Amidst the backdrop of research, we are honored to be joined by a great group of student contributors. I'm also lucky enough to interview a true advocate and expert in the realm of parenting LGBTQ plus youth, heather Hester. Heather is a visionary founder of Chrysalis Mama, an organization dedicated to supporting families on their journey of understanding and acceptance. Her wisdom and guidance extend even further through her podcast, just Breathe Parenting, our LGBTQ plus youth team, where she compassionately imparts her knowledge to parents seeking guidance in this realm. Just take a quick moment and follow rate, download this episode to spread the word. Just one little share and download helps me so much to continue the efforts to make parenting our teens a little more informed and a lot more joyful.
Speaker 1:This episode is brought to you in part by Tomboy X. Tomboy builds silky, soft and long lasting premium underwear for all bodies. They're committed to designing inclusive and sustainable products that help customers feel comfortable in their own skin. Scientific research has gifted us with invaluable insights into the world of the LGBTQ plus community. According to groundbreaking findings from the Williams Institute, there are nearly two million individuals between the ages of 13 and 17 who proudly identify as LGBTQ plus. This statistic underscores the importance of acknowledging and embracing the diversity within our youth. Research conducted by Trevor Project shows that having just one accepting adult in their lives can reduce the risk of suicide by 40%.
Speaker 3:Teachers are fairly progressive and offer us different like documents about each week of like how we're feeling, different things about that. We have any problem with them. So, like I feel like most of my teachers make themselves an outlet for any problems that we may face when it comes to just mental health or things with LGBTQ plus, and they make it aware that they're always very accepting of any problems we may face, or like they make it very aware that they're very supportive of any decisions or ways that we are identified.
Speaker 1:Are there any clubs or anything like that on campus?
Speaker 2:No, no, but also because it is a Catholic school. I don't know if people are like no you can't do that Great question.
Speaker 1:When young people reach out to us anxious, depressed or overwhelmed, they receive the support and affirmation they deserve. The adverse health and educational consequences for transgender and non-binary students are even greater than those for lesbian, gay and bisexual students. Yet students with supportive adults in their lives are less likely to feel unsafe or to miss school and more likely to have higher GPAs, to pursue post-secondary education and to feel a greater sense of belonging in school. School counselors like me recognize the overall goal is to ensure the safety, comfort and healthy development of all students, maximizing inclusion and social integration while minimizing exclusion and stigmatization. Now let's check in with Heather Hester, who explores her own remarkable journey as a parent of children identifying as LGBTQ plus youth. She shares with us her own grappling with the issues of morality, religious beliefs and misconceptions about gender and sexuality, mental health concerns, as well as parenting rights. You've been on a journey. I have been on a journey.
Speaker 4:Yes, it has been quite extraordinary. It has been lovely. There are many moments that I would not have used that word. It's been very difficult, it's been excruciating at times. It has absolutely stripped me down to my core and remade me. I say that pivotal point, like everybody has those really pivotal points in their lives or most people do where they can look back and say this is the moment in time when my life I could have taken one route or the other route and I chose. This way, my life has changed forever. Conner's coming out was one of those moments in time.
Speaker 1:Take us back there. Can I just take us back there? When did that happen? Absolutely yes.
Speaker 4:So Conner came out as gay on which they're going to laugh on February 9, 2017. He had four little kids he was 16 and then the younger three were 13, 11, and 9. Just all over the place and was fortunate enough to be able to be a stay-at-home mom. For context of the story, I grew up in a very conservative Christian home, the basis for a lot of my life up to that point. That's what I knew. That's how I'd been taught. That is not how we did not carry that over into our household. As far as how we were raising our kids, we made a lot of kind of unintentional but intentional pivots. However, that being said, there was that kind of basis, if that makes sense Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Still part of the value system that you grew up in. Correct it leaks in.
Speaker 4:Exactly yes, my husband grew up Catholic, even if we're the most under.
Speaker 1:We perceive ourselves as the most enlightened, understanding parents in the world. These things come at us and we are leveled.
Speaker 4:I mean perfect word. Yes, that is exactly what we were, especially because of the way that it happened. He had run away. My mom called me. She was like Conor's gone, he's missing. We can't find him. I was like, okay, well, have you called you this person? And this person, really trying to be calm, she was panicking. I'm like, well, let's check in with the friends first. This is really unlike him, but let's not panic yet. And finally left a message and I was like look, we're really, really worried. I cannot find you. Your location is off. I'm calling the police. And within a minute or two he called me back and he was just hysterically crying. He's like Mom, I have to tell you something. I was like okay, what's going on? And he was like I'm gay and I was like I don't care. That's great. I thought you were dead.
Speaker 1:Like get your ass back home, We'll figure it out.
Speaker 4:I literally that's exactly it. I mean it literally was like just get home. It's like 10 below zero outside. What do you fast forward? We come home and don't say anything to my parents. I'm like, don't worry about grandma and grandpa, I will handle them, just go home and be safe and we will be home.
Speaker 4:And so you know, we get home, we start, we start right and we are just like whoa. I mean, first of all, whoa, because we did not see it coming. Second of all, it was one of those moments where I was like I remember like standing there and being like everything that I have been taught and told my whole life cannot possibly be true. This is my kid. Like my kid is not going to help. That cannot be a real thing and I need to figure this out. And and we are going to learn what we have to learn and my husband was 1000% on board with that.
Speaker 4:His whole thing at the beginning which people you know giggle about, and especially dad's giggle about is that he was just like. I just don't understand it because he has a terrible sense of fashion, but he really was just so stuck on that. He's just like I'm like, he's 16. Like what 16 year old boy do you know, gay or straight that has a good sense of fashion. The next 18 months were really, really difficult because he went from being in a very typical oldest child that like overachiever the pleaser, very much the pleaser, and just spiraled like everything spiraled, fell into a really deep depression, lots of self loathing, which at the time we were just scrambling, we had no idea like how do we support this kid?
Speaker 1:Like we need to learn so much and when you're in it and you're also looking at your adult community and wondering like who's going to support me and who's going to judge me, and I found that part of the puzzle really surprising the people who I thought would be supportive, who have been judge judgmental and the people who could have been judgmental have been ultra supportive and I was so afraid of, you know, people judging Connor, you know, at being any more difficult than it already was.
Speaker 4:You know, who could we tell, who could he tell safely? That was one of my, you know, keeping him safe and again, we live north of Chicago, so we are in a relatively progressive area. We were trying to find support pieces for him, support pieces for us, accurate information for both of us trying to stay ahead of him, which we didn't for a very long time. I mean, he was just like jumping from you know, one coping mechanism maladaptive coping mechanism to the next, faster than we could stay on top of it and learn about right, Right, the kids are faster at this.
Speaker 1:You know, they're faster at adapting because we grow up with them thinking our kid is one thing or one way. And then they surprise us. And then we're trying to like get on that train and they're like, oh, I've already gotten on this other train. Like, if they really want to do stuff, they're going to figure it out. That's so. The answer isn't like that authoritarian monitoring, clamp down, it's what. What is it then?
Speaker 4:The answer is communication, education and being really uncomfortable. I mean, I think that is one of the biggest, biggest things I've I've learned is it's okay to be uncomfortable and it's okay to not know. It's very humbling when we finally like kind of stripped away all of that, like all the things you do out of fear and that idea of, well, this is what a parent's supposed to do, a parent is supposed to control, a parent's supposed to be in charge. And I remember a friend of ours at one point saying well, you guys lost control a long time ago. And I remember thinking what an odd comment to make. Control's an illusion.
Speaker 1:It does reveal another level of truth. When my kid came out and then came out as trans, I got a lot of feedback from adult people caring well-meaning, but a lot of judgment around like, well, you can just tell them no or tell them that's not acceptable, or they can't be who they are.
Speaker 4:They're already in it and they've been there for months, if not years, before they let us in on it. And that is one of the biggest things and I'm sure you found this too where, when you're having these conversations with people that are like it's a choice, or they just decided, or it's a lifestyle like all the lovely things. It's a phase. It's a phase which one am.
Speaker 4:I saying it's attention seeking, and I think this child realized eons before it ever came out of their mouth, before they ever started expressing it in a way that we could see it in the physical world.
Speaker 4:This is something that they have been wrestling with and negotiating, and I think that is one of the number one biggest things that I wish I would have known when Connor came out, because I feel like I could have been on top of other things so much more quickly because it took me so long to get there, to understand that and to be like, oh okay, well, he's already been through all of this. So this is where he is now and this is how I can support him, and these are the kind of supports that he needs, and this is why he's feeling so much self-loathing, and this is perhaps what's coming at him from external sources that I cannot see, I have no access to, I can't control and you mentioned that word support and I'm curious about like one of our challenges as adult caregivers is like how do we support our kid, how do we advocate for them?
Speaker 1:Let it, it's still their journey ultimately, but we're also in our own journey. It's like a new part of our identity and how do we advocate for our kid in a that's hard to get used to? I think I'm sort of learning how to do that and really just proactively advocate for what my kid and other. It's easier with other kids, but with my own kid it's harder.
Speaker 4:It is a lot harder. Yes, I agree, the shifts that we're making and, you know, for many of us we are, we have kids who are teenagers, so not only have they come out as gay or trans or you know whatever. You know, sexual orientation or gender identity is beautiful things. They're teenagers.
Speaker 4:So I mean that's just a whole other layer of development, that it's like this constant, like okay, is this developmentally appropriate because they're teenagers, do I need to be concerned? Or is this, you know, because they're struggling with something having to do with their orientation or identity? I remember sitting in the advisor's office shortly before we had to pull Connor out of school for that time and you know, just crying and just you know we were talking about like what do we do and how do we, you know, help this kid? And and I was just like it's like everything that you ever envision for your child just blows up right, and I was like it's like a movie reel, like you have this vision and then it really starts from like the day that they're born, right, and probably even before they're born, that you start this like movie reel of all the things. And because we live in a heteronormative and assist normative world, that is the default all that just blows up, you write in the center.
Speaker 1:doesn't it put you right in the moment of like this?
Speaker 4:is our reality, uncomfortable as it is to like let that blow up and and feel it. Sit in that and be uncomfortable and feel it, because I think that's a really important part of the process and of our process as parents. But then to let that go and we're like all right, this is, this is where we're going, this is, this is where we are, this is who my child is, and you know, our options are love this kid for who they are right now, in this moment in time. It's the only relationship if you want to have a real, authentic relationship with your child.
Speaker 1:It's really a call. You know that hero's journey they're calling us to be like come. We're changing this movie. This is no longer a romcom, something a little darker. How? Have the siblings come into the picture. How have they rallied and and what's their journey been like? I'm sort of asking you to speak for them, so I apologize if they listen to this and they're like mom. That's not the case at all.
Speaker 4:You don't even know. Well, I'm sure you know now that they are 2018 and almost 16, they have all three had very, very different experiences with it. So my 20 year old Isabel and Connor have always been close. We kind of had like it was a Connor and Isabel, and then Grace and Rowan, and Connor told Isabel almost immediately.
Speaker 4:We found out thankfully it was only about six months of time, but in that six months of time he was telling her everything, he was sharing everything with her, and she was 13 and very just like takes everything and has like all four of my kids have their own flavor of mental health struggles, so hers was very much anxiety driven and so this just did not help at all because she was carrying and she wanted to be there for him and she wanted to support him, but it was just so much for her to handle. That became like a new piece to the kind of another layer to okay, now we've really got to work with her and like what does she need? And like really being present for her, not only to be able to talk with us but to get her supports right, because therapy, therapy, yes, right.
Speaker 1:Can we just give a plug to therapy Good, good for everyone, good for children.
Speaker 4:We're stigmatized now Can we all just it is. I am a huge proponent of therapy. I believe it is just. It should be part of everybody's self care. It is just a an objective person that you can talk to. It is one of the greatest things that's ever happened in my life, and my kids too. And my husband, who even you know he even goes. He's so cute. I even go so proud of himself.
Speaker 1:And men need it too. That's a whole other episode.
Speaker 4:but just how we ask the men in our lives to show up and get in touch with their feelings and get in touch with that emotional discomfort, it is something that for a while he really was like oh, we'll do the family therapy, we'll do the the couples thing, we'll do you know the all the these things over here, but I'm good, I'm fine. And then finally it was like I'm not fine and being able to ask for that was huge right. To be able to identify that and ask for it was huge. Good year later, when he kind of shared with Grace and Rowan that he was gay, and it was actually when he was away, when he was in North Carolina, the therapeutic boarding school, and we were there for spring break visiting him, that's a whole. I mean, talk about the wild and crazy things you do.
Speaker 4:This little tea house, you know, like sitting all these cushions, and and he'd like prepared a speech. He was so excited to tell them and share with them and he was in such a good place and so he's like telling him and you know, and Grace just kind of takes it in and and Rowan looks at him and he's like I think you might be the bravest person I know, he's 10. He was 10 years old, I mean, it was just such a beautiful thing and Connor was so touched Kind of fast forward. Isabel has continued to be a confidant but has also had a lot of you know supports in place between therapy and me and friends and all and just growing. Grace definitely had some struggles. She was very angry once she found out that we had not been telling her things and she had seen things happen that she didn't understand what was going on and we had determined at the time she was too young to be told exactly what was going on.
Speaker 4:And I still stand by that decision, that she was too young to know exactly what was going on, and she's beginning to come around to that, but for a few years there she was really angry.
Speaker 4:We can only do so much, right Making the decision that we can and in the moment you know you do. You make those like split second decisions or you know in the moment decisions where you're kind of assessing everybody and you're like, yeah, 12 was probably a little young to understand why Connor's climbing out his window in the middle of the night.
Speaker 4:You're just going to have to answer a lot of follow up questions Correct, and now we have all these conversations and discuss it. We did have to go through some time of you know, some pretty intense therapy and just work and just raw discussions. Lots of lessons learned she has since come out herself. I think that was also part of her journey is that she had begun to realize through all of this.
Speaker 4:I'm recognizing some things, but I'm not so sure, and Conor was certainly not quite in a place for her to be able to discuss it with him. So I think there were just a lot of those little pieces that were difficult at the time.
Speaker 1:It's still unfolding there, right on this precipice of young adulthood, for you to get behind your kid and to support him. I was just reading a statistic on Trevor Project that having even just one caring adult can reduce suicide by 40%. But those are some of the conversations that I'm having to have with other adults who are sort of skeptical about why I indulge my trans child and I have to lay out like, if we don't, here's what the stakes are when your kid goes off to the mental ward for a week. Suddenly you realize here's what the stakes really are.
Speaker 4:Right, I mean it strips away a lot of the BS.
Speaker 2:It sure does.
Speaker 1:Right, what helped you, as that BS was getting all stripped away?
Speaker 4:I circle back to therapy. I mean I'm eternally grateful to my therapist. I've always been a big journaler and certainly through all of this have journaled a ton, but I really have turned to a lot of meditation and really good self care, like listening to myself and not being dependent on. Well, this person says I should do this and my mom believes this, and now she's mad and so and so over here thinks that my kid is going to hell and all the external noise. Learning to just shut that out, just really listen to self and be tuned into my kids and to my husband. It's been a lot of work in that way.
Speaker 4:Everyone has the right to believe whatever they want to believe. Someone else's belief system is absolutely theirs and I do not judge them and I do not wish to be judged for mine. That is not something that I always believed. So, shifting to that and to really kind of tapping into what is it that I believe, what is important, what really does feel true Lots of shifting probably every aspect of your life that you could possibly think of that is what has occurred. So I don't think it was one specific shift, I think it was lots of different ones and talking about it. I have learned to share these things. When my kids ask, I share and if I mess up I apologize.
Speaker 1:That's a huge piece right there. That's so hard for parents to wrap their minds around that we can apologize and we still can be the parents, we still have authority, absolutely Just because we apologize to our kid.
Speaker 4:When you apologize, you're actually modeling. So any of these pieces that we share, it's a teaching moment. It's not just you're apologizing for something that you said or that you did, you're also saying it's okay to do. Like this is how you create a really good, authentic, connected relationship with someone, and I'm still your mom Right, and our connection is more important than my ego 1000%, so I think that they're adult people.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, to apologize to your kid.
Speaker 4:It's okay to apologize to your kid. It really is. I mean, that's been another great gift along the way that I've been like oh yeah, and the way that your kids respond to it is so cool, it blows their little doggy mind actually it does it, does I mean? I mean still, when I do it, they're kind of like well, this is cool.
Speaker 1:Right, because I got some cool mom points.
Speaker 4:You get some cool mom points, which is like an unintended effect, but it makes you more approachable. I mean, I find that they tell me so much more. It just opens things up so you become a more and more safe place because you're more and more human to them, instead of this like mom or parent up here on this high pedestal of perfection. Right, it allows it less than no. It's okay to make mistakes, because we're all human. I'm just an older human who happened to birth you. It's like these more wrinkles than you With you'll get there, like this, like this. This is this is all that happened. My gravity happened.
Speaker 1:Many emotions. Long night I had a kid ask me he's like how old are you? Are you a hundred? And I said yes, I am. I look good for a hundred, right? Uh-huh. What advice would you have for parents who are just sort of starting this journey?
Speaker 4:Two things Love them, Just love them. Let them know that they are loved and see them. Don't be afraid to see them. And don't you be afraid and this is more for you Like don't you be afraid to actually see them, Because I think for the longest time we see what we want to see. We don't see who they are. So take off that. Whether you want to think of it as glasses or whatever you're a film, I challenge you to see them. And it's going to be uncomfortable. Embrace that. Uncomfortable is good. Uncomfortable means you're growing. What happens when we see?
Speaker 1:our kid or who they are.
Speaker 4:Well, first of all and most importantly, kind of back to your Trevor Project statistics. You can pretty much take those statistics off the table when you see your kid. When you see your kid, when they feel seen and heard, that's huge. Second, they will share so much more. So what might in one case take six months to work through, might take three, because they feel that much more comfortable talking with you or sharing or just kind of working through what they're working through, instead of like keeping it all bottled up because they're afraid of your response or afraid of what you're going to say.
Speaker 1:It's just the ultimate acceptance you like. That message that you just shared can be applied to so many different themes Self harm, suicidal ideation, eating disorders all these maladaptive things that we see cropping up at this age. When kids are seen, it's like it allows them to heal so quickly.
Speaker 4:It does, because so many of those coping mechanisms are because they're afraid and because they don't feel seen. And that's not to say that you have done anything wrong. Most parents don't know how to do it. We haven't been taught. We have not been taught there is no manual for any of this and it's going to feel awkward and messy, but just do it Like they don't care. Actually, the more awkward and messy it is, the more your kids like it, because it just feels real to them, because they're awkward and messy.
Speaker 1:They have a huge bandwidth for awkward and messy.
Speaker 4:They really do. If you notice, when you have, like the most perfect Polish speech, that's when they glazed over the quickest. There is no faster way to lose your kid than this.
Speaker 1:Those- old sort of models, the way we maybe conducted ourselves with kids or we teach in classrooms. That is no longer working. But what we get to replace it with, maybe, is a more authentic, if not awkward and messy relationship.
Speaker 4:Exactly, and I don't think it's always that way. That doesn't mean it's always going to be awkward and messy, but it definitely starts out that way, just because it's something that's new.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we make room for it.
Speaker 4:There's nothing like a teenage child to just bring you to your knees.
Speaker 1:I think you're glowing actually from this. You are on the other side.
Speaker 4:Thank you, Thank you. I can't wait to read your book In my website. I'm sure you notice I have my kind of. My tagline is Embrace, Educate, Empower and Love, and so I built it on those pillars. So it's you know kind of walking through those pillars and really lots of like using those pillars to support your child.
Speaker 1:Thanks for bringing that into the world, Along with Connor, Isabel, Grace and Rowan.
Speaker 4:I'm just grateful. That's my biggest thing all the times. Whenever I start to have moments, I'm like this is pretty amazing.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, heather. You can learn more about her advocacy efforts by checking out chrysalismamacom or tuning into her splendid podcast, just Breathe, which we can all do right now. Learning our LGBTQ plus youth is a journey that hits close to home for me, as I too am a parent of a teenager who identifies as transgender. It's a path filled with unique challenges, but it's important to remember that LGBTQ plus youth in many ways, are just like their peers. You don't need to be an expert in all things LGBTQ plus to make a meaningful difference in their lives. Start by listening uninterrupted to their experiences, embrace any discomfort you may feel and seek support from understanding individuals who won't judge you or your child. Show respect for these kids by using their preferred pronouns and or living names. These small acts demonstrate that you value their autonomy and love them unconditionally.
Speaker 1:For many LGBTQ plus youth, coming out to their immediate family can be the most daunting step. Students have shared that once they feel their parents are truly supportive, they gain the strength to face whatever lies ahead, regardless of how your child identifies Saying those words we all long to hear I'm here for you, I love you and I've got your back, no matter what can make all the difference in the world. Well, that's it for this episode. A heartfelt thank you to our student contributors and our dedicated advocate, heather Hester. Join us in part two of Smells Like Teen Parents series, where we delve into organizations committed to nurturing the next generation of LGBTQ plus youth leaders. And a special thanks to all of you, our listeners far and wide, for sharing, rating and downloading this episode within your communities. May you be safe, may you be healthy, may you be free from suffering, and don't forget to wear sunscreen every day.
