Smells Like Teen Parent
This podcast is for adolescents and the adults who annoy them. You want to have a good relationship with your teen and you also have to get them ready for the real world. Jenny Debevec, a nationally certified counselor and consultant with 20 years working with teens, helps you maintain your sense of humor, offering motivation, advice, and support as we walk this sometimes smelly road. You will hear fun discussions and let’s get real interviews with parents, kids, and experts about topics like college applications, sex and gender identity, social media, relationships, learning disabilities, parent self-care, puberty, and more! If you need a laugh, a little advice or just want to know you’re not alone, listen in.
Smells Like Teen Parent
Ep 16: Trust, Truth, and Lies: How to Build More Honest Relationships Between Teens and Adults
Discover the delicate dance of trust that defines the ever-evolving parent-teen relationship with thoughtful insights from Jenny Debevec, adult guest expert Dr. Eric Solomon and teens themselves. Together, we peel back the layers of truth, lies, and the quest for adolescent independence, offering you a treasure trove of understanding and strategies to fortify these crucial bonds. Hear heartfelt stories and expert research that illuminate the reasons behind teenage secrecy and its reverberating effects on everything from school success to self-esteem. We confront the tough issues head-on, advising on how to handle the moment a child entrusts you with their hidden truths and exploring ways to rebuild trust when it’s been shaken.
Venture further into the intricate fabric of family dynamics, as we navigate the challenges authenticity faces in an era where opinion is often mistaken for fact, not just in the public arena but also within the close-knit circle of family life. The conversation introduces innovative tools like the 'trust barometer' and the 'line of humility', aimed at nurturing curiosity and open dialogue over defensiveness and stubbornness. Fundamentally, we emphasize the value of adopting a learning stance over the need to always be correct, with the ultimate goal of cultivating deeper, more transparent family connections amid our complex social landscape. Don't miss this essential exchange filled with actionable insights for parents and teens alike.
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Welcome to Smells Like Teen Parent, a podcast for adolescents and the adults who annoy them. I'm your host, jenny DeBevick, a nationally certified counselor and academic consultant with 20 years experience working with youth. In the last episode we talked about starting conversations with your adolescent about careers, and in this episode we dive into the intricate dynamics of trust, truth and lies within the parent-teen relationship. Why is building trust with your teenager important? Should you tell them when you lie about something? What do you do when trust is broken?
Speaker 2:It's kind of natural for teenagers to kind of test the rules and to sometimes even break them and just to see what they can do. And I think most kids know what's good for them. A lot don't, but I think at least the ones I surround they can do. And I think most kids know what's good for them A lot don't, but I think at least the ones I surround myself with do.
Speaker 1:I'm thrilled to have esteemed expert on trust joining us for this conversation, dr Eric Solomon, founder and CEO of the Human Operating System, who brings a wealth of experience from leadership roles at Bonobos, instagram, spotify and YouTube. Welcome, dr Solomon.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's really. It's an honor to be here with you, jenny. As you know, we go way back and it's a pleasure to watch your evolution as well.
Speaker 1:Please take a moment to rate, share and download this episode. Downloading helps raise our data analytics and spread the word to our local and international communities. Your downloads allow me to create more frequent content about topics that matter. This episode is made possible by Herschel Supply Company. Herschel designs classic products that combine style, quality and purpose, while keeping sustainability at the forefront, with luggage tough enough for the way you actually travel and a spring seasonal edit for a new year of travel, pairing signature styles with new colors, prints and silhouettes inspired by movement and exploration. Personally, my Herschel Supply backpack got me through four years of grad school and I never leave for work without my Herschel tote bag, which can hold two laptops, a dozen fidget toys, 12 files, a huge container of water and snacks galore. Herschel Supply Classics aren't born, they're made All right. We're going to bring Dr Solomon on in a minute to talk about the importance of trust and how it's an ongoing process in our society. How are you trustworthy?
Speaker 4:I think I'm trustworthy, but I'm also very loyal to the people that I love, so like, if they ask me to do something like trustworthy, like I'll get it done and I'll definitely do it.
Speaker 5:I'm trustworthy because if I'm asked to do something, you can always trust that, like I'm going to get it done in the best possible way I can.
Speaker 1:The significance of trust in the parent-teen relationship cannot be overstated. According to Reach Out Parents, this trust must be a mutual effort, a delicate dance, if you will, where both parties meet in the middle to cultivate a healthy reliance on each other's decisions. But a lack of trust can sow seeds of doubt, leading to a relationship fraught with second guessing and suspicion. What about with your parents? How do you build trust with them?
Speaker 2:I wanted to hang out with a girl and I my parents wouldn't let me drive her, but I really wanted a driver, so I drove her to San Francisco because I wanted to go out with her. And then we come home and then my parents like they looked through my car for some reason and they see a parking ticket or not a parking ticket, like you know, when you go to a parking lot and you get the parking receipt, because they got really mad at me. But then I told them the reason why I did it. I was like I know that you guys didn't want me to do it, but with my reasonable judgment I saw that it was the risk was worth the reward. I think, speaking back to like truth and honesty, like I was honest with them, that I wasn't honest with them that I didn't take the train, but I was honest with them the reasoning why I did it.
Speaker 1:Trust building is indeed a gradual process requiring commitment from both sides. It serves not only to fortify the parent-child relationship, but also lays the groundwork for your child to develop strong, stable, trusting relationships in the future. The hard truth is lying is normal. Victoria Talwar, phd from McGill University, enlightens us on why adolescents lie so well and so often. Her research shows that while certain types of lies decrease during adolescence, an increase is observed in concealing personal information. Teens are especially protective of risky behaviors, troubled grades and rocky relationships the very things we adults want to know about. In a 2019 study on the phenomenology of lying in young adults and relationships with personality and cognition, daily liars demonstrated negative impacts on academic performance, quality of life and self-esteem. Daily lying was associated with adverse effects on school, social and family home domains. Pathological lying, often stemming from childhood trauma, necessitates addressing underlying mental issues through therapy. How would you view trust with your own family?
Speaker 6:I kind of view trust with my family as like threading like a rope, where you build trust over time by like interacting, like saying things about your day and like having the other person you know believe in you but also not fully get mad for like everything you do. So like if, like, I asked my parents if I can like go out, they trust me, I trust them that I won't do something stupid because they trust me, and so like if I do something stupid, I could potentially like break that trust and I may never be able to do the same sort of things again. So it's like kind of like that.
Speaker 1:A trusting relationship yields numerous benefits, fostering open communication about challenging subjects like sex, money, drugs, academics and mental health. By practicing the conversations of trust building, you're helping young people plan for the future and for future relationships. This means that when your child shares something with you that is difficult to hear, try not to freak out, Breathe and respond in a measured way. Thank your teen for being honest with you and recognize that it takes courage to be honest. The more your teen can feel psychologically safe with you over time, the more personal things they will share.
Speaker 4:So I would say that trust definitely goes both ways and trust only happens if I would say, trust only happens if you're being treated equally both ways. If I'm with my parents and I'm talking to them about something and I'm like confiding, and then I'm trusting them to not like go off and tell my aunts or uncles then and they don't do it, then I, then it proves me that I can trust them. So I would also say that trust, trust only happens if your words follow your actions. So that that's like a big thing for me like.
Speaker 1:So how do you know if your teen is worthy of trust? The axiom love is free and trust is earned holds a lot of resonance here. Trusting a teen solely for the sake of being a positive parent can inadvertently convey a message that actions bear no consequence, and we've all seen how that turns out. Worthy trust in this context stems from a demonstrated ability to handle responsibilities such as curfews, attitudes and financial matters. Let's talk about the psychology behind teen lying real quick.
Speaker 1:Research by Nancy Darling reveals a staggering statistic Close to 96% of adolescents lie to their parents. Let me just repeat that Close to 96% of adolescents lie to their parents In this very well-known the Junior to Senior Pinocchio study suggests that lying proficiency surges during childhood and reaches its zenith in adolescence. Whoopee, something else to look forward to, along with your morning back pain. Another study by Linnae Arnett Janssen indicates that 82% of high school and college students admitted to lying to their parents in the previous year. And that's just the lies where kids are self-disclosing to official researchers, so that number is probably higher. These findings underscore the overwhelming prevalence of teen lying, surpassing common perceptions. Have you ever lied to your parents?
Speaker 5:Um, a little bit. Sometimes it's like it helps you have your own privacy. Sometimes, like sometimes things don't. Things don't need to be shared, I feel.
Speaker 1:Fair enough. How would you view the trust between you and your family?
Speaker 5:I think my parents have always been like very trustful of me. Like I've never been a person to like get into like super bad situation, so they trust me and my decision making and I think that helps with throughout the family and overall what we think of each other and how truthful we are.
Speaker 1:Let's set the expectation so that we adults are prepared to navigate breaches of trust in a collaborative way. Number one expect breaches of trust as your child tests the waters of independence. The response to such breaches should involve collaborative efforts to decide appropriate consequences, ranging from honest conversations about expectations to the removal of privileges, offering the opportunity to rebuild trust. A couple of quick strategies for parents to build trust. This is kind of a holistic approach. Number one foster open dialogue through open-ended questions like tell me about this recent grade or tell me about the dent on my car.
Speaker 1:Validate your teen's feelings and experiences, even if they sound completely absurd to you. Demonstrate trustworthiness and accountability in your own behavior. Provide opportunities for their independence and affirm their responsible decision-making and problem-solving. And finally, be unwaveringly supportive, while still holding boundaries which reinforce a sense of trust, even during challenging times. And, teens, let's not forget about you, since trust is a two-way street. Here's a couple of tips for you. One communicate your needs openly. Two, strive for honesty, as transparency with your adult caregivers builds trust over time. And three express gratitude for your parents' trust in you and how it impacts your sense of independence. And now let's talk to Dr Solomon about the ever-evolving landscape of trust. Why do you see that trust matters?
Speaker 3:It's a big question.
Speaker 3:Why does trust matters?
Speaker 3:A version of the truth, not a version of, not a warping of their sense of who you are or what you're about, but rather reflects some subjective reality that they have about who you are.
Speaker 3:I worked in so many places where I say this all the time I had to do this and other people had to do this, where you have to don the cloak of performance you every day. You're like, for all the talk of showing up as your full self, nobody in the corporate world shows up as their full self. You show up as a performance version of who you are and you start to wonder whether or not the people that you are working with are people that you can trust and whether or not what you say might be used against you in some way, used for somebody else's gain. And then you know trust, on a bigger level, matters because we're in a place and time where anybody can quote, unquote, do their own research about any topic and come to their own conclusions about oh I don't know the state of women's health, the state of nationalism, the state of race division, the state of geopolitics, and if you're looking for integrity and looking for facts, it can be harder to find those facts in a sea of opinions.
Speaker 1:And I'm sort of curious about how that donning what did you say? Donning the garb of performance? Or the cloak of performance, the cloak of performance and how that having to do that all day. You know, students have to do it at school and parents have to do it at work, and then they have to come and they are this family. And how might that affect a family situation and the ability to trust one another in a family?
Speaker 3:You know, families are often a big stem of mistrust in a lot of ways, where we don't even know who within our family dynamics we can trust. You know, but part of the confounding factor right now is, as much as there's good in social media out in the world and much as there's positivity there, it definitely presents a curated version of life. A curated version of life that is not a reflection of what's true, but what we want other people to see. And so how could it not seep into our family dynamics and our family discussions when we're showing up in a world that doesn't really want to see who we really are? And it's harder and harder to muddle through identity, because we're sitting there crafting our identities every day through the platforms that we post on.
Speaker 3:None of us are immune from it. We become different people. So then we start to drill down around the family table if there is even such a thing as the family table anymore, where people sit around to have dinner and it's a question of can you really show up as who you are? Do you really know who you are, or which version of yourself are you bringing to the table that day? Because you don't have one version of self anymore. Yeah, it's a more just a big question of just identity, of who we really are. And so when we don't know who we really are, how can we be truthful?
Speaker 1:Right. I sometimes get feedback from my kids saying don't do your, don't do school counseling with me, right or or. And also just being patient with my kid as they're trying on different identities. That's this other piece of like. Okay, how can we be patient with the trust process? You wrote about something called the trust barometer in that recent post and I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for the last 20 or so years, one of the biggest PR companies in the world called Edelman. They're a massive PR company globally but they have released for the last 20 years and some people question the methodology, but they've been very consistent and they produced this trust barometer that looks at the global levels of trust across four key institutions globally business, nonprofits or NGOs, media and politics, or government and what they have found, especially over the last few years, is that there's only one institution that's trusted across all of them and it's not a high level of trust, but one institution. So I'll let everybody ponder, including you, what that institution is. But it's shocking to me that the only trusted institution in the United States right now, but also globally, is business. Business is the only trusted institution over NGOs, media, politics, our own education system. All of the trust is put into business, but you're talking about a trust level that hovers around 50%, so it's not even that trusted.
Speaker 1:Wow, okay, so we trust at the highest level 50%, and we trust businesses the most. Yeah, wow, and then that trickles down into families, as we're sort of living together in a culture of mistrust.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, you know it's not even that, but you think about the family unit. What is a business other than a collection of people with some hierarchy to them, or sometimes?
Speaker 3:not even a hierarchy, but most of the time a hierarchy. So a family is nothing but a business. To some extent, you've got you even have it the mom CEO. You know you hear about that language being used all the time, but you're running a small business of people, even though they're not quote unquote producing work product for you. You're producing a dynamic of trust and a dynamic of collaboration and a dynamic of being together and togetherness. And so, yeah, it's not surprising that we find that people show up to the table not really knowing what version of themselves they should be presenting, or around the couch or wherever they families congregate. My family never congregate anywhere, so I don't know.
Speaker 1:How do we build more trust?
Speaker 3:There's such a simple thing. There's a book out called the 15 principles of conscious leadership, and I've met these people that started this idea of conscious leadership and what it means, and one of the things that I've appropriated or changed as part of what they do is this idea of what I call the line of humility. And you can think about a line of humility of just drawing a line across a page. Just think of a blank page and think of a line across it, and we're either, at any given time, above or below this line. In fact, we vacillate between being above and below this line all day long, every day and multiple times per day.
Speaker 3:When you're below the line, you are committed to being right, you are closed and you are defensive, and we all know how that goes in family dynamics, when we are committed to being right, we are closed and we are defensive. In family dynamics, when we are committed to being right, we are closed and we're defensive. When we're above the line of humility, we are committed to learning, being open and being curious. So we're not closed and defensive, we're open and curious. We're not committed to being right, we're committed to learning, and the way that we build trust is to stay above the line as much as humanly possible. In every interaction that we have, in every kind of conversation, we have ask ourselves am I being below or above this line? Right now? It's okay if I'm below the line, but what might it take for me to be committed to being curious in this question?
Speaker 1:So above the line is open learning, and what's the other part of it?
Speaker 3:Above, curious, open, learning and curious, and then, below the line, you're closed and defensive and committed to being right.
Speaker 1:Well, we see that all the time with teenagers and parents is this constant. That line of humility seems like it would be so applicable here, where parents feel like they have to catch kids or manage them and teens are going through really challenging experiences around academics and drugs and relationships.
Speaker 3:And we all remember what it was like to be a teen, where you think you're right about everything and then you are met with that as a parent and you want to be right because you actually know better because of life experiences. So it's a budding of being below the line, everybody's below the line. So how is it that you can possibly foster a community of trust if you're both committed to being right when there's no right answer?
Speaker 1:So how do parents and teens work Like? What would you advise? And maybe what do you advise at the corporate or business level to get back above the line. What are some things that people can do?
Speaker 3:are some things that people can do. There's no silver bullet for this whatsoever, but it goes back to being like when I was first at Google, I worked a little bit consulting with their people analytics team, looking at what are the five factors that drive dynamics of teams. What are the five winning factors that make teams of any kind whether it's domestic teams, work teams, engineering teams, marketing teams, hr teams what makes them most successful? And the two top things are highly correlated.
Speaker 3:It's a thing that Amy Edmondson made really popular in the 90s called psychological safety, and another one that's called dependability. Psychological safety is being able to speak your mind without the fear of being seen as stupid or disruptive or anything like that, and I feel like when people don't have psychological safety, it means that they can't depend on each other or rely on each other. When they do have psychological safety, they can, and so much of trust is what underlies that, because when we can't depend on people and we don't feel like we've got the psychological safety to be who we are with them, there's no possible way to build that trust. So the question is like what can you do to understand what the psychological safety is among a group of people, even if it's two people. And then how do you understand how to grow that psychological safety? And there's tips for doing that, lots of tips for doing that.
Speaker 1:That sounds like some really important work. I'm just thinking about how that psychological safety applies with teens and parents, like if a teen you know maybe had an experience where they experimented with drugs or came home with a bad grade. If they know that their parents are going to freak out, they're not going to tell them, of course not.
Speaker 3:And in fact we do that as adults too. If we know there's going to be massive repercussions for telling a version of the truth, what do we do? We bend the truth. We do this all the time, whether we're honest about it or not, and you know, to some extent is that human nature to protect ourselves and to protect other people. When you're really honest with somebody and that's what leads to trust is because you feel safe enough to be able to say something without retribution, without being reprimanded for the honesty and the vulnerability that you've put on the table.
Speaker 1:That's a great thought, and with parents, it seems like it would start with you know them creating, making sure that they are psychologically safe within themselves and that they've examined, you know, their own frustration safe within themselves and that they've examined.
Speaker 3:You know their own frustration. That's right. You can even take that inward and say do you judge yourself harshly? Do you call yourself stupid or disruptive or ignorant? Because you can't develop psychological safety for somebody else unless you've got safety within yourself to be who you are and to love who you are?
Speaker 1:That's a million dollar reflection right there. Send you a million dollars for that, oh. And then the other piece is dependability, and I know we were almost out of time. But who you are? That's a million dollar reflection right there. Send you a million dollars for that, oh. And then the other piece is dependability, and I know we were almost out of time, but could you just comment really quick on how dependability plays a role in fostering trust.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I mean, dependability is a more obvious term.
Speaker 3:It's, you know, being able to rely on each other and being able to feel like you can truly hold each other accountable for being dependent upon.
Speaker 3:What you see with the correlation with psychological safety is when psychological safety is low and people don't feel safe in their environments, they're much, much less likely to be dependable as family members, as teammates, as partners in life, whereas if psychological safety is high, you're much more likely to feel like you can rely on each other, much more feel like you can hold them accountable if they don't deliver on a deadline or they don't say, do what they say they're going to do, and actually holding people accountable for that. But what underlies that dependability is a lack of trust, right? When we don't feel like that trust is there, which is fostered by psychological safety, it creates a vicious cycle of not being able to depend on people. So then you've got your two most important factors psychological safety and dependability being in the tank. So it doesn't really matter how good the other stuff is. If those things are low, you're not going to have a thriving dynamic.
Speaker 1:Wow, I really these are such great pieces for families to consider. Thank you so much for taking time today and sharing your wisdom and thoughts with us. This is really going to help people think about how they can foster more psychological safety and dependability within their home unit. Thank you, dr Solomon. And if you are curious about his work, he has some regular-ish interval. It's called In Pursuit of Quality and it's just. I read it every Monday morning and it just sets my spirit high and it helps me just maintain perspective. So thank you for that as well. Thank you for reading. I love reading your work, isn't he just so wise?
Speaker 1:All right, some final practical insights to guiding the journey of trust recovery. When trust is fractured, the path to recovery involves open dialogue, time, consistency and reaffirming boundaries. Underscoring all of it is spending quality time together. Quality time together, where you, the adult, are truly present, emerges as a potent healing mechanism, fostering a renewed sense of trust and safety. By instilling positive and trustworthy behaviors that extend beyond traditional family boundaries, you have the potential to forge a bond that transcends the typical parent-child disciplinary dynamic and help grow something authentic and lifelong.
Speaker 1:Well, that's it for this episode. My heartfelt thanks goes out to Dr Solomon, my student contributors and the Birdhouse Studios. This podcast episode is proudly brought to you by Herschel Supply Company, your go-to for timeless designs that seamlessly blend style, quality and purpose. Join me in our next episode, where we venture into the realm of neurodiversity. We'll explore the diverse workings of the human brain, the identification of neurodivergence, and the strengths and challenges faced by young people on the spectrum To our listeners. Your engagement, sharing, rating and downloading are truly appreciated. May you be safe, may you be healthy, may you be free from suffering, and don't forget the sunscreen every day. Until next time. This is Jenny DeBevick signing off from Smells Like Teen Parent.
