Smells Like Teen Parent
This podcast is for adolescents and the adults who annoy them. You want to have a good relationship with your teen and you also have to get them ready for the real world. Jenny Debevec, a nationally certified counselor and consultant with 20 years working with teens, helps you maintain your sense of humor, offering motivation, advice, and support as we walk this sometimes smelly road. You will hear fun discussions and let’s get real interviews with parents, kids, and experts about topics like college applications, sex and gender identity, social media, relationships, learning disabilities, parent self-care, puberty, and more! If you need a laugh, a little advice or just want to know you’re not alone, listen in.
Smells Like Teen Parent
Embracing Neurodiversity: Jonathan Cormur's Journey Through Theater and Advocacy
What if embracing your unique identity could lead to a rewarding career in the performing arts? Join Jenny Debevec as she talks with Jonathan Cormur, an accomplished actor and passionate advocate for neurodiversity, who opens up about his journey with autism. From the challenges of navigating a Catholic school environment to discovering his passion for theater and voiceover, Jonathan's story is a testament to the power of self-acceptance and resilience. Listen as he recounts his transformative experiences and his impactful work at Great America theme park, which not only boosted his confidence but also helped him form lasting friendships.
In this episode, Jonathan also shares invaluable advice for young individuals on the spectrum, emphasizing the importance of learning from failures and staying true to oneself amidst societal judgments. We explore his advocacy work, including the memorable "The Mighty League, with J-Man and Reginald T Hedgehog" presentation, and the critical role of family support in his life. From discussing how the understanding of autism has evolved over the years to his rise as a minor celebrity, Jonathan's journey is an inspiring beacon for anyone striving to embrace their unique identity and passions. Don't miss this heartfelt conversation that highlights the significance of supportive environments and the joy that comes from celebrating neurodiversity.
Welcome to Smells Like Teeparent, the podcast for adolescents and the adults who sometimes annoy them. I'm your host, jenny DeBevick, a nationally certified counselor and academic consultant with 20 years of experience working with youth. That's a lot of years. In this short series of episodes, we're diving into the world of neurodiversity, starting with a conversation about autism. Autism is often misunderstood, leading to marginalization, undervaluation and a shocking statistic Individuals on the autism spectrum are three times more likely to be victims of bullying. Why? Because autism is still shrouded in fear and mystery. My work with families and schools over the years has shown me just how crucial it is to shed light on these issues. That's why I am thrilled to have Jonathan Kormer joining us today. Jonathan is not only an on-camera actor and voice actor with a broad range from Shakespeare to children's storytelling and cartoon characters, but he's also a passionate advocate for neurodiversity.
Speaker 2:You know, I've learned that if you get too upset about life and people, especially online political stuff and all that stuff, if you get too wrapped up and too, if you don't just laugh at the absurdity of it all, you'll go crazy.
Speaker 1:You might know him as the voice of California's Great America Amusement Park or from his latest project, the Dirt Tale Storytime Podcast, where classic storytelling meets geek culture. His work, particularly the Hidden Heroes of History series, is an inspiring reminder of the impact that steamers and dreamers can have on our world. He's also my friend. Ah, before we get into it, please take a moment to rate, share and download this episode. We're working on a couple of grants, and downloading helps raise our data analytics and spread the word to our local and international communities. Your downloads simply allow me to create more frequent content about topics that matter. So, without further ado, let's dive into our conversation with Jonathan about navigating life on the spectrum, the power of the performing arts and how he's integrated autism into his successful career. Oh, yes, and this episode is brought to you by California's Great America, the top destination for thrill seekers and families alike, even if you get terribly sick now on roller coasters.
Speaker 1:If you're looking for things to do near San Jose and who isn't? Great America has got you covered. They've got more than 50 rides thrilling roller coasters, kid-sized fun in Planet Snoopy and a South Bay Shores water park. Fun fact, it's the only amusement park in Northern California that has a water park included with park admission. With live entertainment and world class events happening year round, there's always a reason to return. Season ticket deals are on sale now, so get going and, without further ado, let's dive into our conversation with Jonathan. I just love this guy. Thank you, jonathan, for joining us this morning.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you, yeah, yeah, thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 1:The timeline. So I met you. I think you were like end of high school, because I remember you vividly and we were in a voiceover class together. We've been in each other's lives as colleagues. I think the first time you and I met was probably you were. You were in high school.
Speaker 2:Probably. I mean I known you for a long time.
Speaker 1:You were at what like sort of a mainstream elementary school? Yes, actually it was a Catholic school oh okay, and what was that experience like for you? The?
Speaker 2:worst part about it was the workload. But you know it doesn't matter where you go, you're always going to. Unless you find the place that's really right for you, you're always going to. You're going to face some challenges. That's really right for you. You're always going to. You're going to face some challenges. For me it was not so much the bullying just because I was so different from most kids, I didn't get that a lot. But that wasn't as rough as, honestly, it was the workload we would get homework like every day in every subject.
Speaker 2:And this was back when, you know, we had hard back, hard covered back books and you have to bring all of them home in your back Like it's no wonder I have a slouch and it was just getting more and more difficult for me to keep up with the homework. I think that's the real reason for the reason that I wanted to leave, to leave that school, and we found because they were kind of an alternative, they were more sort of a hands on smaller classes, which meant I would get more attention. There was more like classroom learning, a lot more hands on learning and less homework. That was actually where I got diagnosed.
Speaker 1:How old were you when you received a formal diagnosis of autism?
Speaker 2:12, 13, 14. So around, I would say early to mid-teens is when, I got my diagnosis and I think how, how my mom told me was she noticed signs, certain signs that I was on the spectrum. Back then they called it Asperger's syndrome.
Speaker 1:And that's even just changed, really in the past few years, where the language around it, the nomenclature around it has shifted.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean, I get it. It's just easier for people to understand. There's pros and cons to that. With Asperger's syndrome it was like kind of its own thing, because when you thought of autism you mostly thought of Rain man and Haley Jo Osment for Mercury Rising and those kind of like non nonverbal I guess would say lower functioning or higher needs, Whereas Asperger's it's like oh, it's, it's, it's like a spinoff of of autism. Right, it's the same. There are the same, it's got the same symptoms, but they work differently. Now everything's kind of lumped together in one big although now it's just like I'm on the spectrum, which, okay, sure.
Speaker 1:How do you feel about that designation, or do you identify in a different way?
Speaker 2:I identify as me because people would probably say like, unless they really knew me. And they knew, there was one guy I work with in one of my jobs where he actually asked me and that was because he said like no, you're, you're not obvious.
Speaker 2:I grew up with a guy who was just like you and so I you just reminded me of him so much. I was just curious. And so people who know know I'm not ashamed of it, it's just there's always that kind of nervousness when you see me and I am more social and I am more capable, and it was really because I learned how to do it and I worked hard to do it. I worked hard to become so.
Speaker 1:How did you learn how?
Speaker 2:Well, necessity is the mother of invention, although there are times when I go why couldn't I hyper fixate on cars? It would be more lucrative. But if I wanted to be in the acting and voice acting kind of field, you have to be able to work with people and talk to people and network with people. So it really was just out of necessity getting myself out there. Any actor who's starting off take classes, especially with people who have been in the business for a long time. That's the way you meet people of similar interests to you. You just learn that you have to talk to people.
Speaker 1:Who were your sort of allies and friends along the way you know as a young adult?
Speaker 2:As a young adult.
Speaker 1:I mean, I guess you're still pretty young, but, like younger adults, sort of that transition when our peer group becomes so important were there certain people that you were able to be like, okay, these are people who understand me and that I can connect with?
Speaker 2:I kind of wish that I took more advantage of my college lifestyle, but I wasn't really ready for that yet. Honestly, my biggest social breakout came when I worked for Great America.
Speaker 1:We came back together to do that thing with Geek Club Books. Is that right yeah?
Speaker 2:I think so. Yeah, that's when I gave her a book. We were in classes together, yes, and then at Voice One Taught by Elaine Clark. Now she's doing her own thing and rebuilding the community again, which is great, because I think the Bay Area California needs someone to organize and lead its community, because it's good that she's building everyone who lives here up that way.
Speaker 1:And she's always been that advocate for her students and a pioneer, I think, as a woman in the Bay Area industry.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh yeah, and I feel like we were lucky to find her. Yes, she had so much clout in the industry and we met and got to learn from all kinds of amazing people.
Speaker 1:So you studied at voice one with Elaine Clark. You knew you loved voiceover. Like, was it like that? You loved characters. How did you know that this was your thing?
Speaker 2:Well, it was. I mean, I always like to imitate cartoon characters that I, that I, that I loved as a kid, and but it wasn't until, like, I was in high school, I was at Stanbridge Academy and.
Speaker 2:I was in high school. That's the kind of time when it's like what am I going to do with my life and what's my thing? The one disadvantage of being at a school like Stanbridge, which is smaller, is there's not a whole lot of variety of people there, especially if you were a man. You were either a young man, you were either a jock or a computer whiz, and I was neither of those things.
Speaker 1:So finding a place where you could fit in or carve your own path.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, where do I fit? But I think even before that, whereas Stanbridge specializes in teaching people with learning and social disabilities and we used to do plays, I did, I did a couple of breakout kind of roles in the, in the theater, there, you know, high school level theater.
Speaker 1:But it's a start. You've got to start somewhere Got to start somewhere.
Speaker 2:Exactly exactly and you know, elementary school level like kind of theater, and it was, yeah, you have to start somewhere. And it was the first time I got like a really good response from people in general that kind of convinced me and my family that I should do youth theater, I should try youth theater. So I auditioned for pyt, potentially youth theater. They were doing a junior version of les mis and I got the part of the, the most evil character in the entire show, the inky, the, uh, the innkeeper the tenadiere yes, yes, I remember my mother tells me.
Speaker 2:she says, like I said, everyone knows each other. I mean, these were people who grew up with PYT and I'm a newcomer and she's like don't worry, jonathan, they're going to really love you. You know what you're doing and the whole mom spiel you're great, and all that stuff. I don't usually gas myself up. I find that very unless you really need to psych yourself up and all that stuff Like, oh, you can do this. And and I usually gas myself up if I actually figure out on my own that I a problem that I fix and I'm like, oh the man, the man. Teachers were totally like yes, jonathan, do it, do it, do it, we're fine with it. My whole class came to one of the shows and that was when everyone was like, okay, this is who he is.
Speaker 1:There you go yeah here we are so sometimes it seems like finding that for students, like as young people, that spark of what they're passionate about or what they're good at and having that recognized by the community can launch a person forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did theater for so long and, if I get the chance, I still enjoy doing it. We did the entire Star Wars trilogy abridged. The whole thing was like do the entire Star Wars trilogy in one hour. I played Darth Vader and Yoda.
Speaker 1:I can totally imagine you doing that. So then you got to Great America and that was like a first big. So Great America is this theme park in California and you were doing voiceover. In what capacity?
Speaker 2:When I first started at Great America, that was like kind of the tail end of when they were owned by Paramount, so they had all the Nickelodeon stuff. I remember I don't know what compelled me to do this, but I remember telling the uh, the entertainment manager at the time. I said, you know I could, I would love to do the. And now if you need somebody else cause they were, they were going to lose all of their Nickelodeon, you know character park announcements. And I said you know, if you want somebody to do your announcements, here's my card. I don't know what compelled me to do that.
Speaker 2:The next year, when I, when I reapplied for when they were opening up the season, they said to me would you be able to do it? And so I got to do all of the park announcements, as well as a few rides and stuff and all the announcements. And that was a big deal, not so much for my career but socially. That was a huge milestone for me because that's where I made my largest group of friends and companions and my relationships. When it came time for the Halloween haunt, I was just some random monster there. I didn't really broadcast to everybody that I did the announcements. I thought, oh boy, I feel bad for these people. They're going to have to listen to my nasally voice over and over again every day. I didn't tell anybody that I was the announcer. I'm just the only people who knew were the administrators and the techies.
Speaker 1:Why didn't you tell people?
Speaker 2:who knew were the administrators and the techies.
Speaker 1:Why didn't you?
Speaker 2:tell people I'm my own worst critic. Okay, and so when I hear my voice, I'm just like. That's why I rely on my like. Even to this day, with my podcast, I rely a lot on my engineer to keep me from second guessing myself and I'm like. I'm like Peter Jackson with Lord of the Rings world. I could potentially do like a hundred takes just to get a sentence perfectly.
Speaker 1:You're exacting.
Speaker 2:I'm exacting yeah.
Speaker 1:But also self-critical.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Can I skip to that part about your podcast and this idea of you building a community for yourself that you felt is encouraging to you and has encouraged you along the way? Because that's one thing I noticed in working with younger students and even high school students is helping them find a community where they feel accepted and friends who are kind of understanding of their quirks wherever they are. High needs, low needs it's all over the map and now it's like we're getting diagnoses earlier it seems like, and there's more knowledge around it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is good, and I've noticed because I also work with in addition to the podcast, I work with kids too, and there are some parents who still carry the fear of that stigma and you know you just want to grab them by the shoulders and go, no, don't like, don't, don't be afraid, it's not going to ruin their life or anything. It's just you're going to have so much more information on to help them grow. I would never have been where I am if I didn't know, and it wasn't a devastating blow, it was more like a oh okay, that makes sense. That's why I behave the way I do when I am and because of that, once you kind of accept that it's just part of who you are, you kind of make it work for you.
Speaker 1:And you not only have that realization for yourself, but you've gone on to be an advocate for for students and also for school and building awareness for schools. Yeah, talk a little bit like when we did that with geek club books. Remember when we went into the schools and you went?
Speaker 2:James. James and he it's important to note that we were both content creators. He was, at the time, like a YouTuber.
Speaker 1:What was that moment like for you?
Speaker 2:I mean as long as I wasn't going in there pro bono, although I probably would have done fine. So what it was, it was a show. It was like a stage kind of. It was a presentation, an assembly, if you will. An assembly, if you will yes, an assembly, if you will.
Speaker 1:And didn't we write that script together? Or like we were all sort of involved in cultivating the script? And then it was essentially you and there was animation in the background, yes, and you and James coming out and discussing your experiences growing up on the spectrum and how you sort of became a superhero.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the animation part was actually based on my life and it was called the Mighty League, with J-Man and Reginald T Hedgehog.
Speaker 1:That's one of your early characters.
Speaker 2:The hedgehog idea was interesting because there was this one show and anime of all things that I connected with when I was a teenager and they brought up something called the Hedgehog's Dilemma, where it was about two hedgehogs who wanted to get close to each other but were afraid of hurting each other because of their wall, of their spines. And that's kind of how I was socially I was afraid to get close to people because I was afraid of getting hurt and possibly driving them away. So I built kind of a wall of protective spines around myself. And that's where my little sister, who's a writer she's also in the arts kind of the art scene too. She does a lot of writing she took that idea and created a little mascot character from it.
Speaker 1:So she's been a big supporter of yours, yes, along the way. Who else has been your biggest supporters along your journey?
Speaker 2:Oh, my mom and dad, my grandparents, my whole family has been very supportive. Of course we talked about Elaine and you and, but it started really with my, my family. It has to. Yeah, honestly, it really it does. It has. It starts from there and then you know, it grows and grows and you get fans and the fans can turn into supporters and it just kind of grows out from there.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's one of the reasons, you know, I've been thinking about having you on this podcast for like like a year and a half, basically, and because I wanted you know working with families and working with kids who are just starting on their journey on the spectrum. I wanted to have you share your experience because you've gone through it, you know and your family has been on this journey, and I want other families to be able to like hear from you. It's going to be okay. What advice would you give to young individuals who are on the spectrum?
Speaker 2:Best advice I got in terms of like from Peter Dinklage's character Tyrion Lannister from Game of Thrones, back when the show used to be good Caveat there Okay.
Speaker 2:He had a wonderful line in, I think, the first episode of the series where he tells Jon Snow never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not Wear it like armor and it can never be used to hurt you. That was a good sort of way to kind of protect myself and to own who I am. And then it's like once you kind of own who you are, you develop a sort of confidence, not overconfidence, but it develops kind of once you kind of know who you are and you're. If you're comfortable with yourself and you can laugh at yourself and all that stuff and you're okay with yourself, if you like yourself, people will like you.
Speaker 2:But you have to like yourself first and don't be afraid of failure. Everyone fails, everyone falls down once in a while. Everybody struggles and has their difficult times and that's okay and it's unfortunate and it stinks when it happens, but that's how we all learn and we grow from it and don't be afraid to live those moments, because it's how you learn, it's how you become better. I mean, like I said, it took me a while to find my community and because I didn't have the confidence yet. Just briefly going back to Great America, because this is important about my massive group of friends. I didn't have my confidence yet, which is why I didn't tell anybody that I was the voice of the whole park.
Speaker 1:You are the voice of Great.
Speaker 2:America. I was the voice of great america, yes, for about five years, and people knew there were a few people who knew the administration, the techies. There's one thing I've learned working with the techies the techies talk, a few of them spread the word and it got to the point and then people just started to ask me do you do all the voiceovers and stuff? Are you, you the guy who does all that stuff? And it's, and I'm like, yeah, it's like dude, that's awesome. I don't want to.
Speaker 2:I feel I cringe when I say like I became kind of a, at least within that whole group. I became a celebrity, that's right. Oddly enough, I'm like okay, you know me, mr, stand in the corner watching, just kind of stay in the shadows, please don't, please don't, look at me, kind of guy. And I was invited to places and people actually genuinely liked me because I was John. I was, I was John Murphy, I was Jonathan Murphy. I think when you're young, you kind of want to be cool. You want to be cool, you want to be in, you want to fit into the crowd. And it's hard because everyone's judgmental and I know from personal experience kids are very judgmental.
Speaker 1:Very judgmental Because they don't know who they are yet and they're trying to. If we're taking it from a compassionate viewpoint, they're all just very messy kind of figuring out who they are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they're also. They don't have inhibitions yet, so they're going to let you know what they think.
Speaker 1:Yes, they don't always yes, they do.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, and I remember when I was going in college, I was studying theater in college and we did put we put on shows and one of the shows we put on work where it was a children's production, and I remember my my professor saying listen, guys, just to be warned, you kids are, they're gonna know if you're not. And I'm, I'm just like, well, yeah, they're easy to grab if you talk on their level and if you engage with them and stuff, and you don't, you don't, you don't talk down to them and you believe it, you believe what you're doing. You. If you believe down to them and you believe it, you believe what you're doing. You.
Speaker 2:If you believe in the world and the character you are in the world you're in and stuff, they will believe it too. They know, they know if you're being fake, and I think they're not very good at being fake yet, and so there's an obsession to kind of look cool and stuff. But it's like you know, once you stop worrying about what other people think of you, and when you stop caring about what other people think of you or say about you and stuff, and you're just like yeah, okay, yeah, thanks, and so you kind of learn to sort of see the humor in it.
Speaker 1:It gets easier.
Speaker 2:It gets fun. Yeah, it's more fun and they and if you're having fun, if you like yourself, and that's just true, no matter what if you, if you like yourself and you're just fun to be around, just true, no matter what If you like yourself and you're just fun to be around, they'll start to like you.
Speaker 1:Good for teenagers to hear that over and over as they're walking that path. So future goals you've got Dork Tales happening. What is your role in continuing to be an advocate for the autism community? You could be like I already did, that I'm good. I don't know if I feel like Dork Tales is a little bit of that.
Speaker 2:This is about an autistic creator. This just I mean it's its own kind of thing. It just happens to be that a lot of people who work on it are on the spectrum. That's it. When I play that, 95% of all the characters, unless we have a guest star or a guest actor on. You know we've had a couple of kids. Usually it's a woman, because there's only so many authentic women voices I can do. A lot of the voices are me. The character of Jonathan, jonathan Cormer and Reginald T Hedgehog are two aspects of my personality. One is like beautiful day in the neighborhood, a beautiful, you know Mr Rogers type, and the other is a Stewie Griffin, like a Rex Harrison. Stewie Griffin sort of you know British type, wears his heart on his sleeve. More Doesn't have the same kind of unfiltered, the unfiltered sort of type, but the artistic kind of type.
Speaker 2:Both of those are parts of you coming out Both of them are part of me and get to show off sides of me, but it's there on the website, of course, and it is part of me, but it's like this isn't necessarily a show about autism. This is a show from an autistic creator.
Speaker 1:And so people get to see these kinds of success stories and celebrate you.
Speaker 2:And they get to see there's more to me than just my diagnosis. The diagnosis is a big part of me and it's informed a lot of who I am. But it's not all who I am. It's been an asset in a lot of ways and the show Dork Tales Storytime shows other parts of who I am in addition.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful. Thank you, jonathan. Well, that wraps up our conversation with Jonathan Kormer. I hope you found this interview as inspiring as I did. If you're looking for more resources or you want to learn how to better support youth on the autism spectrum, don't hesitate to reach out. Email us at smellsliketeamparent at gmailcom. Thank you for following, downloading and sharing this episode with your community. Your support helps us create more content that truly matters. A big thank you to Jonathan Six, who's doing the research on this, and to all our student contributors and, of course, birdhouse Productions, where we make it all happen. And join us next time as we tackle the ins and outs of navigating special ed in the school system, from getting a diagnosis to understanding the difference between an SST, a 504, and IEP accommodation plans and building the relationship your child needs to succeed. Until then, keep learning, keep growing and keep being the awesome parents and allies you are.
