Smells Like Teen Parent
This podcast is for adolescents and the adults who annoy them. You want to have a good relationship with your teen and you also have to get them ready for the real world. Jenny Debevec, a nationally certified counselor and consultant with 20 years working with teens, helps you maintain your sense of humor, offering motivation, advice, and support as we walk this sometimes smelly road. You will hear fun discussions and let’s get real interviews with parents, kids, and experts about topics like college applications, sex and gender identity, social media, relationships, learning disabilities, parent self-care, puberty, and more! If you need a laugh, a little advice or just want to know you’re not alone, listen in.
Smells Like Teen Parent
Ep 21: Empowering Neurodiverse Students through Special Education
Discover the transformative power of advocacy and inclusive education with guest Dr. Kristin Vogel-Campbell, a leading expert in special education. This episode promises to equip you with practical strategies for navigating the often-challenging world of special education, from early interventions to transitions from high school to college. She shares how fostering partnerships among educators, families, and administrators to ensure that every student receives the support they need. Through the compelling voices of our diverse student contributors, you'll gain firsthand insights into how accommodations like 504 plans and IEPs can open doors to educational success. Host Jenny Debevec helps shine a light on the critical role of supportive teachers, the art of self-advocacy, and the profound impact of understanding neurodiversity in creating environments where all learners can thrive.
Welcome to. Smells Like Teen Parent, a podcast for adolescents and the adults who annoy them. I'm your host, jenny DeBevick, a counselor and academic consultant with over 20 years of experience working with youth. In today's episode, we're diving deep into the experiences, challenges and triumphs of families as they navigate the school system. I'm thrilled to bring you an enlightening conversation that highlights the heart of special education. Our adult guest today is Dr Kristen Bogle-Campbell, a leading expert in special education. We'll explore the transformative power of advocacy and how to foster win-win partnerships that serve diverse families in special education. You'll also hear from our courageous student guest contributors, who share their personal experiences within special ed programs and discuss how they've utilized accommodations to fully access their right to education. But before we dive in, please take a moment to rate, share and download this episode. Your downloads boost our analytics and help spread the word to our local and international communities. And help spread the word to our local and international communities. They also help me to produce more frequent content on topics that matter to you, whether you're a student, parent, educator or advocate.
Jenny Debevec:This episode is packed with practical advice, heartfelt stories and the inspiration you might need to make a difference. This episode is brought to you in part by Bach Rescue Remedy. Whether it's juggling work or family, an overwhelming to-do list or a lack of sleep, stress can and does sneak up on all of us. Rescue products combine a unique blend of five Bach original flower remedies to provide gentle everyday stress and sleep support Trusted by millions worldwide. Keep Rescue Remedy and rescue sleep by your side day and night. I feel so much more relaxed already. So let's start by hearing what teenagers are dealing with. Tell me about what you struggle with in school, with your learning differences.
Student contributor:I struggle a lot with like remembering and stuff and like reading comprehension. It's like really hard to like to read something and then remember what someone said or retain information.
Jenny Debevec:How long have you known that you learn differently?
Student contributor:I think it was like second grade, something like that, is that when you were you diagnosed pretty young, yeah, and what helps you?
Jenny Debevec:What's helped you over over the years?
Student contributor:Teachers that put in like the time and effort to kind of not accommodate, but like take the time if I don't understand something to kind of really help me. Some teachers don't do that and then it's like oh damn.
Jenny Debevec:What does it feel like to not be supported by teachers?
Student contributor:Kind of feels like they're giving up. They like don't care as much.
Jenny Debevec:How do you feel about your learning differences?
Student contributor:I wish it didn't cause me to like struggle in school, but it's not too bad now because I have a lot of support for my school.
Jenny Debevec:Do you think there's any advantages to?
Student contributor:the way that you learn, I feel like I can think outside the box sometimes.
Jenny Debevec:So you have friends with learning differences and who identify as neurodiverse perhaps. How do you support them as a friend?
Student Contributor:I try and support them by encouraging them understanding how their differences affect them. Learning from that perspective is also like very helpful in like understanding what they're going through.
Jenny Debevec:Do you feel like your school is supportive of neurodiverse learners?
Student Contributor:Yeah, I feel like my school has helped people who are very challenged in that kind of aspect. You know they always ask if you need help and they always give it when you need it most, especially with those who are suffering from like on the spectrum or have ADHD, and they give out something called 504s to help accommodate their differences.
Jenny Debevec:So you have what kind of special ed accommodations? You have a 504 plan, is that right?
Student Contributor:Yeah, 504 plan.
Jenny Debevec:And what is that 504 plan intended to do to help you?
Student contributor:It's just supposed to make it a little bit easier for me. It's just the way I learn is a bit different from the norm. I'd say so by developing a little bit more strategies through the school and giving me the ability to have a little bit more accommodations really helps me able to absorb knowledge a lot better.
Jenny Debevec:And who's helped advocate for you along the way.
Student contributor:I've had to advocate myself a lot. Just teachers or counselors I have to remind them a little bit just to make sure I am getting the accommodations. But that, as well as my parents, have been super helpful because they were kind of the first people to notice that I was struggling in my early years, so they had me tested and allowed me to attain a 504 plan.
Jenny Debevec:Do you feel like it's having that accommodation plan in place has helped you in school?
Student contributor:For sure. I think by either having like extra time allowing me to kind of think through my decisions and writings, as well as being able to work on like a computer instead of have a handwrite. Overall it's just really allowed me to be on the same level as everyone else, because it kind of felt really early years that I had to like put 10 times more effort in to just get the same output.
Student contributor:Neurodiversity means thinking about things differently, and not in a bad way, just from like a different angle, like around my friends and like just people at school. It's never really talked about like seriously. I would say I need like an accommodation plan.
Jenny Debevec:Do you consider yourself somewhere on the neurodiverse spectrum?
Student contributor:I do. Yeah, I definitely have a different approach to a lot of things and I've had to find a lot of different ways in school and to really excel. It's sometimes it's a lot harder to get to the same place as other students. It does really help personally me in the long run because I have learned a lot of place as other students. It does really help personally me in the long run because I have learned a lot of skills that other students have to learn later. On Time planning, what would you?
Jenny Debevec:What have been the most useful tools that have helped you,
Student contributor:Not beating myself up on it.
Jenny Debevec:Self-compassion
Student contributor:yeah,
Student contributor:Just yeah. Sometimes I can't do something as fast as other students, but it could be worse.
Jenny Debevec:What
Jenny Debevec:advice?
Jenny Debevec:would you give to students who are just sort of starting their journey or accepting their identity, and maybe also do you have any advice for parents?
Speaker 6:For students, open conversations and keeping things like on their side, like that you're like there for them and they're not like different in like a bad way.
Jenny Debevec:And now let's turn to the adult expert on the matter, dr Kristen Vogel-Campbell. Dr Vogel-Campbell brings so much expertise and she's going to share with us her insights on a range of things such as 504 plans, ieps and the importance of culturally and linguistically responsive practices in creating inclusive educational environments. We'll also delve into her new book, partnering with Culturally and Linguistically Diverse Families in Special Education and her vision for building collaborative partnerships between educators, administration and families. Maybe we could just start with what is the difference between that early student support team, intervention 504,. Maybe we could just start with what is the difference between that early student support team, intervention 504, and then an IEP?
Dr. Vogel Campbell:I will use acronyms and then I'll break those acronyms down. You know, special education professionals, we throw acronyms around and a lot of times those can be weaponized and used against when someone doesn't fully understand. A student or child that is born with a disability can be made eligible for services as early as birth. A student or child that is eligible for early intervention services until the age of three that is what is known as an Individualized Family Service Plan or an IFSP. This is before a student has entered a the school system, so a lot of these services take place either in the home or in a community clinic. As a child is nearing the age of three that has an IFSP, the regional center contacts the school district and says hi, this child lives within your boundaries. They're currently receiving these services under an IFSP. Based on our understanding of this child's needs, we recommend that they be evaluated for eligibility for an IEP, and that stands for Individualized Education Plan, and so an IEP is a document and guidance for students ages 3 up until the age of 22. What a school district can do is coordinate with the early intervention team, gather any past assessments and then assess a child in all areas of suspected disability Once a student turns three years old, the school district is the responsible party for providing special education services. So the difference between an IEP and a 504, my understanding is that it does vary from state to state. They're both protected under what is known as the Individuals with Disabilities Application Act.
Dr. Vogel Campbell:504s are protected under the Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act.
Dr. Vogel Campbell:Generally a student with a 504 is eligible for accommodations, some services, but their disability or their particular need does not overwhelmingly affect their ability to participate in the school environment.
Dr. Vogel Campbell:So, for example, we may have a student who is diabetic, who might need the assistance of someone to monitor their blood sugar throughout the day and to administer insulin or to have a water bottle at their place. But generally 504 plans don't include goals. Iep is for students whose disability impacts their ability to participate in the school setting without goals and services and accommodate things. Students could be evaluated every three years as part of their re-evaluation or whenever there is a significant event in their lives that makes the team question if there is a need to further assess. So a high school age student who requires intensive care and needs will have transitional planning and that will continue to work under the IEP. You know it's a really good idea for parents of high school age students that are on a college track to connect with their school counselor or dean of academics to discuss what that looks like, what those supports look like as they move into college level age.
Jenny Debevec:So if there's like a high school kid with an IEP plan and they're anticipating like they're a senior, they're applying to college, they have this IEP plan. Do they notify a college, or is this something that colleges need information about, or does the kid just bring it with them and hold it close to their heart? How does that piece get navigated for parents?
Dr. Vogel Campbell:A student- that completes a high school diploma, that IEP team could work with both the student as well as the family to transfer whatever accommodations are needed into a Section 504 plan. Once a student lands in college, each university or college has a student services department or an office of accessibility that you know student and family can present their plan that could make instructors aware of the particular accommodations that students need. Most of the time, students need to be their best advocates and they need to sometimes remind instructors of the accommodations and to not be afraid of
Dr. Vogel Campbell:asking for
Jenny Debevec:the
Jenny Debevec:accommodations that they are, that they're allowed Legally they're entitled to have, legally entitled to have.
Jenny Debevec:I think that's one piece that I see kids transitioning into adulthood Like. How do I even kids transitioning into adulthood Like?
Dr. Vogel Campbell:how do I even ask a teacher, you know, or how do I ask my counselor you know, even working with sixth graders to understand their accommodation, so that they can begin to advocate for themselves at an early age, so that by the time they are in high school and then college it's not something new or something that they haven't done before. Having a student become very familiar with their plan, with their strengths and their assets, as well as the areas that they need support in Having them be part of the IEP Does this resonate with you? Does this sound like something that you need some additional support in? Is there anything else that the adults haven't thought of that might be helpful to you?
Jenny Debevec:What kinds of potential challenges with school officials are sort of common and how families navigate that.
Dr. Vogel Campbell:School-side administrators, principals, assistant principals, even some guidance counselors. They don't necessarily have a background in special education. One of the barriers that parents and students might encounter is, you know, working with administrators who may not have all of the background knowledge, having to seek out that knowledge. I think another barrier is families whose first language is not English.
Dr. Vogel Campbell:Effective interpretation, both of the IEP documents as well as during the IEP meetings. Finding interpreters that speak the same language, making sure that we're funneling that information to families in the language that they understand, and then just understanding and navigating documents, not just for families whose language is something other than English, but for English-speaking families. A lot of our documentation in education was written at a high school or college level and not all of our families are coming with that access and sometimes they're not able to navigate the documentation. A lot of legalese, and I'm not a lawyer, but I've spent two decades looking through and viewing these forms so I understand it. But we need to level the playing field and make it equitable so that families feel that they can effectively participate.
Jenny Debevec:It sounds like that's something that you addressed in your book Partnering with Culturally and Linguistically Diverse Families in Special Education. What inspired you to write it?
Dr. Vogel Campbell:What inspired me? I interviewed 11 sets of families, both mothers and fathers. I interviewed 11 sets of families, both mothers and fathers, about their experiences navigating special education, a variety of languages and backgrounds and disability eligibility, early elementary all throughout high school age. Even though every family came from a different place, there were similarities in their stories and the barriers that they encountered.
Dr. Vogel Campbell:There are very easy, quick fixes that don't involve monetary resources that both teachers and special ed service providers and site administrators can take to make families feel more invited and welcomed into the IEP process, like being mindful of our language, being as transparent as possible and, you know, just giving families the power of choice. I think one of the most impactful parts of the book was several families talked about walking into the room for the IEP meeting and everyone else was already seated and there was one choice for them to sit, and some parents just like students when we talk about preferential seating, sometimes they want their back against a wall, sometimes they want to be closest to the door because if they need to take a break with all of the things that teachers deal with, none of us get it right all the time, and I think it's okay to reflect and to do better the next time appreciate that observation of just the nonverbal factors that can either build the collaboration or build a sort of divisiveness between families and the administration.
Jenny Debevec:And I've seen IEPs go really well and everybody comes out feeling like, yes, we're ready for the next steps and on board. And then I've seen IEP meetings that just catch fire and it becomes hostile. We see parents need the advocates and then there's legal. What are the mistakes admin commonly make in the special education process and what are mistakes maybe parents commonly make and how do they avoid?
Dr. Vogel Campbell:them. Regardless of what your background is, I think admin should have a very basic and thorough understanding of that procedural safeguards document that we present to parents at every meeting and be prepared to speak on it. I think a lot of times assume that parents have a full understanding of what all of their rights are For admin. Ask your special education resources at your district For parents. There are lots of amazing parent empowerment centers and a lot of them do amazing parent workshops on understanding your rights when to ask for things bringing in an. There are lots of amazing current empowerment centers and a lot of them do amazing current workshops on understanding your rights when to ask for things Bringing in an attorney or an advocate.
Dr. Vogel Campbell:I don't see it as it's something immediately to be confrontational about. I see that as an opportunity for us as school staff to make sure that we are doing the best job possible For site admin as much as possible to give your special education staff the gift of time so that they are able to not just work on their documentation but to work on service delivery directly with students so that they can speak to that in meetings. That's one of the most amazing ways that trust can be established bringing work samples in. Finally, I would encourage administrators to take classes or to do some professional development in facilitating difficult conversations for parents as much as possible to understand the perspective of school staff and I think that's easier said than done when trust has been broken at some point. But at the end of the day, everyone who comes to that table is there in the best interest of the child.
Dr. Vogel Campbell:Adult egos need to be put aside. Conversations and decisions need to be student-focused. First, let's frame it as what they're able to do, start with a foundation, as opposed to starting off with a negative, and then shift the conversation to what the student is currently working on, so that's kind of their instructional level, and then finally where you would like them to be, so to be aspirational. Students aren't being bad. Behavior is a manifestation and a means of communicating, something we need to kind of dig deeper and understand the function of that behavior. And when we have autistic students, recognizing that they all might communicate differently, and to honor the different ways that they communicate and it's not impacting another student's ability to participate, let them be who they are and not like squash that down.
Jenny Debevec:How can parents advocate for culturally affirming practices?
Dr. Vogel Campbell:As it relates to special education, again making sure that documents are translated in a parent's native language. You know, the parent's preferred method of communication is honored and respected. Teachers, learning basic readings in a family's home language is so, so powerful. Even just thank you, nice to see you. Good morning, good afternoon. Don't cost anything and don't take much time. Kindness and compassion and empathy goes a really long way.
Jenny Debevec:Okay, lastly, what is one piece of advice you would give to parents who are just starting to navigate the special education?
Dr. Vogel Campbell:No question is a silly question. Write things down or write questions down. Have like a, have a notebook, but also have a folder for your student documents and that can either be a physical folder or a Google Drive or a OneDrive folder and keep those documents there. Know your rights about access to like student records so you can ask for your students assessments or prior documentation, and the district or school needs to supply those to you. So if you're just getting started, start out with that folder. If you're kind of somewhere in the process, I think it's a great idea to kind of get that started so that you can do your work prior to going into the meeting. Go into the meeting very clear on your aspirations for your child and have clear questions for staff.
Jenny Debevec:Well, that's it for today's episode. A big thank you to Dr Kristen Vogel-Campbell for sharing her expertise, to my student contributors for their courage and insights, and to Banyan Productions for making this podcast possible. And, of course, thank you to you, the listeners, for sharing and downloading. Together, we're building a strong, capable community of teen raisers. Join us next time as we discuss the complexity of eating disorders and how they impact adolescents and their families. Until then, may you be safe, may you be happy, may you be free from suffering. And don't forget, wear sunscreen, even in winter.
